Unfortunately, I read this amazing book just after I waste all of my initial leads by doing everything this book said not to. A great entrepreneur -Rob Fitzpatrick- put everything you should know about customer conversations together and shared it out there for us to read.
Here are my personal notes and summary for you to save time if you don’t have time to read the entire book. (It’s already a thin book but I get it.)
SUMMARY:
It’s your job to ask good/right questions so that you know if what you wanna do has any real value for people. You will save a lot of time and energy by asking questions that will uncover that your assumptions were all wrong and thats a good thing.
Mom Test
- Does it gives us concrete facts about our customers’ lives and world views
- We have a possible lead with newspaper and magazine PR.
- Mom was unable to lie to us because we never talked about our idea.
- We find out if people care about what we’re doing by never mentioning it. Instead, we talk about them and their lives.
- the big mistake is almost always to mention your idea too soon rather than too late
The MomTest:
- Talk about their life instead of your idea
- Ask about specifics in the past instead of generics or opinions about
the future - Talk less and listen more
- it leads to questions that even your mom can’t lie to you about
- Customer conversations are bad by default. It’s your job to fix them.
Good question / bad question
Let’s play a game. Are the following questions good or bad? Do they pass or fail The Mom Test? If they fail it, why? And how could we improve them? Work your way through the list and then read on for some discussion.
“Do you think it’s a good idea?”
Bad. How they currently do it. Talk about which parts they love and hate. Ask which other tools and processes they tried before settling on this one. Are they actively searching for a replacement? If so, what’s the sticking point? If not, why not? Where are they losing money with their current tools? Is there a budget for better ones?
“Would you buy a product which did X?”
Bad. How they currently solve X and how much it costs them to do so. And how much time it takes. Ask them to talk you through what happened the last time X came up. If they haven’t solved the problem, ask why not. Have they tried searching for solutions and found them wanting? Or do they not even care enough to have Googled for it?
Rule of thumb: Anything involving the future is an over-optimistic lie.
“How much would you pay for X?”
Still bad. How much does the problem cost them? How much do they currently pay to solve it? How big is the budget they’ve allocated?
“What would your dream product do?”
Mehh. The motivations and constraints behind those requests are critical
“Why do you bother?”
Good. You’re shooting blind until you understand their goals.
“What are the implications of that?”
Good. This distinguishes between I-will-pay-to-solve-that problems and thats-kind-of-annoying-but-I-can-deal-with-it “problems”
Rule of thumb: Some problems don’t actually matter.
“Talk me through the last time that happened.”
Good. How do they spend their days, what tools do they use, and who do they talk to? What are the constraints of their day and life? How does your product fit into that day? Which other tools, products, software, and tasks does your product need to integrate with?
“Talk me through your workflow.”
“What else have you tried?”
Good. What are they using now? How much does it cost and what do they love and hate about it? How much would those fixes be worth and how big of a pain would it be for them to switch to a new solution?
Did you google around for any other ways to solve it?
If they haven’t looked for ways of solving it already, they’re not going to look for (or buy) yours.
“Would you pay X for a product which did Y?”
Bad. People are overly optimistic about what they would do and want to make you happy. Plus, it’s about your idea instead of their life.
Another way to fix it is to literally ask for money. If you have the deposit or pre-order in hand, you know they were telling the truth.
“How are you dealing with it now?”
Good. While it’s rare for someone to tell you precisely what they’ll pay you, they’ll often show you what it’s worth to them.
“Where does the money come from?”
“Who else should I talk to?”
“Is there anything else I should have asked?”
- you aren’t allowed to tell them what their problem is, and in return, they aren’t allowed to tell you what to build. They own the problem, you own the solution.
There are three types of bad data:
1. Compliments
2. Fluff (generics, hypotheticals, and the future)
3. Ideas
Generic claims (“I usually”, “I always”, “I never”) 28
Future-tense promises (“I would”, “I will”)
Hypothetical maybes (“I might”, “I could”)
Questions to dig into feature requests:
“Why do you want that?”
“What would that let you do?”
“How are you coping without it?”
“Do you think we should push back the launch add that feature, or is it something we could add later?”
How would that fit into your day?
Questions to dig into emotional signals:
“Tell me more about that.”
“That seems to really bug you — I bet there’s a story here.” “What makes it so awful?”
“Why haven’t you been able to fix this already?”
“You seem pretty excited about that — it’s a big deal?” “Why so happy?”
“Go on.”
If you’ve mentioned your idea, people will try to protect your feelings.
you just want to talk a bit more about their stuff before biasing them with your idea.
Talk less
You can’t learn anything useful unless you’re willing to spend a few minutes shutting up
The more you’re talking, the worse you’re doing.
We want to believe that the support and sign-off of someone we respect means our venture will succeed. But really, that person’s opinion doesn’t matter. They have no idea if the business is going to work. Only the market knows
Is the “problem” not actually that big of a deal? Are they fundamentally different from your ideal customers? Do they not care about the specific implementation? Are they worn out and skeptical from hearing too many pitches, like cafe owners in the aftermath of Groupon? Are they just plain tired today?
There’s more reliable information in a “meh” than a “Wow!” You can’t build a business on a lukewarm response.
pre-plan the 3 most important things you want to learn from any given type of person
You always need a list of your 3 big questions.
THIS IS KEY: keeping it casual.
Trying to set Official meetings are like
You slam down a quick espresso to psych yourself up and fumble through some sort of awkward monologue about how they seem like a really nice person and this is kind of weird because you don’t even know each other but maybe they want to go get a coffee sometime? Like, a different coffee? At a different place?
Even explaining that you’re starting a company and would love to ask a couple questions can take 5 or 10 minutes. You’ll make progress a lot faster if you’re able to leave your idea out of it for as long as possible.
Give as little information as possible about your idea while still nudging the discussion in a useful direction.
When you fail to push for advancement, you end up with zombie leads: potential customers (or investors) who keep taking meetings with you and saying nice things, but who never seem to cut a check. It’s like your startup has been friend-zoned.
“Customers” who keep being friendly but aren’t ever going to buy are a particularly dangerous source of mixed signals.
You know how to deal with compliments by now: deflect, ignore, and get back to business.
I never consider rejection to be a real failure. But not asking certainly is
The major currencies are time, reputation risk, and cash.
A time commitment could include:
- Clear next meeting with known goals
- Sitting down to give feedback on wireframes
- Using a trial themselves for a non-trivial period
Reputation risk commitments might be:
- Intro to peers or team
- Intro to a decision maker (boss, spouse, lawyer)
- Giving a public testimonial or case study
Financial commitments are easier to imagine and include:
- Letter of intent (non-legal but gentlemanly agreement to purchase)
- Pre-order
- Deposit
The more they’re giving up, the more seriously you can take their kind words.
Good meeting / bad meeting
“That’s so cool. I love it!”
“Looks great. Let me know when it launches.”
“There are a couple people I can intro you to when you’re ready.”
“What are the next steps?”
“I would definitely buy that.”
“When can we start the trial?”
“Can I buy the prototype?”
“When can you come back to talk to the rest of the team?”
But you do need to distinguish between legitimate offers and polite gesturing
Rule of thumb: It’s not a real lead until you’ve given them a concrete chance to reject you.
First customers are crazy. Crazy in a good way. They really, really want what you’re making. They want it so badly that they’re willing to be the crazy person who tries it first.
“THAT IS THE WORST PART OF MY LIFE AND I WILL PAY YOU RIGHT NOW TO FIX IT.”
Firstly, when someone isn’t that emotional about what you’re doing, it’s pretty unlikely that they’re going to end up being one of the people who is crazy enough to be your first customer. Keep them on the list, but don’t count on them to write the first check.
Secondly, whenever you see the deep emotion, do your utmost to keep that person close. They are the rare, precious fan who will get you through the hard times and turn into your first sale.
Rule of thumb: In early stage sales, the real goal is learning. Revenue is just a side-effect.
Seizing serendipity
Rule of thumb: If it’s not a formal meeting, you don’t need to make excuses about why you’re there or even mention that you’re starting a business. Just have a good conversation.
Hello, I’m doing my PhD research on the problems around X, it would be a huge help if I could ask you a couple questions for my dissertation.”
Landing pages
Organise meetups
Nobody ever follows this recommendation, but it’s the first thing I would do if I got moved a new industry or geography. It’s literally the most unfair trick I know for rapid customer learning. As a bonus, it also instantly bootstraps your industry credibility.
Get clever
His solution was to organise a semi-monthly “knowledge exchange” call between the department heads of 3 top universities to discuss the challenges around his topic of choice. Furthermore, it was set up as a conference call where any other universities could dial in and listen to the best practices of the big 3.
By simply organising the call and playing host, he immediately absorbed all the credibility of the top universities and got direct phone access to a pile of great leads.
I was talking to a team of recent graduates who needed to reach McKinsey style consultants. They were pulling their hair out. We were in a coworking space full of other young entrepreneurs, so I just stood on a chair and yelled, “Excuse me! Does anyone here know anyone who works at McKinsey? Can we talk to you for a second? We’ll buy you a beer — you could really help us out!” They bought 3 beers, had 3 quick chats, and left with a diary full of intros.
Rule of thumb: Kevin Bacon’s 7 degrees of separation applies to customer conversations. You can find anyone you need if you ask for it a couple times.
Industry advisors
I relied heavily on advisors in my first company. We didn’t know the industry and nobody took us seriously. Our 5 advisors each had around a half percent of equity and basically just made credible intros. I met with each once per month, so I ended up getting a fresh batch of intros weekly without it being a huge time burden for any of them.
Universities
I’m jealous of founders who are still in (or recently out of) university. Professors are a goldmine for intros. They get their grant funding from high- level industry folks they’re on good terms with. And since they’re investing in research, those industry folks are self-selected to be excited about new projects.
Professors are easy to get in touch with if you don’t know them yet. They post their emails and you can just wander into their office.
Asking for and framing the meeting
The common, “Can I get your opinion on what we’re doing?” sets expectations of neediness and that you want compliments or approval.
No expectations at all are set by, “Do you have time for a quick coffee/lunch/chat/meeting?” which suggests you’re liable to waste my time.
- You’re an entrepreneur trying to solve horrible problem X, usher in wonderful vision Y, or fix stagnant industry Z. Don’t mention your idea.
- Frame expectations by mentioning what stage you’re at and, if it’s true, that you don’t have anything to sell.
- Show weakness and give them a chance to help by mentioning your specific problem that you’re looking for answers on. This will also clarify that you’re not a time waster.
- Putthemonapedestalbyshowinghowmuchthey,inparticular,can help.
- Ask for help.
calls damage the delicate power dynamic of these conversations. When someone is having a coffee with you, there’s the potential to chat as friends. You can just shoot the breeze about the industry for a bit. You can keep it casual. They’re enjoying the conversation
Rule of thumb: Keep having conversations until you stop hearing new stuff.
Choosing your customers
When it comes to avoiding drowning and making faster progress, good customer segmentation is your best friend.
By getting specific, she was able to cut through the noise, stop drowning, and start making progress.
Rule of thumb: If you aren’t finding consistent problems and goals, you don’t yet have a specific enough customer segment.
This drilling down into ever more specific groups is called Customer Slicing. You take a segment and then keep slicing off better and better sub- sets of it until you’ve got a tangible sense of who you can go talk to and where you can find them. Start with a broad segment and ask:
Within this group, which type of this person would want it most?
Would everyone within this group buy/use it, or only some of them?
Why do they want it? (e.g. What is their problem or goal)
Does everyone in the group have that motivation or only some of them?
What additional motivations are there?
Which other types of people have these motivations?
What are these people already doing to achieve their goal or survive their problem?
Where can we find our demographic groups?
Where can we find people doing the above workaround behaviours?
Talking to the wrong people
You have too-broad of a segment and are talking to everyone
2. You have multiple customer segments and missed some of them
1. You are selling to businesses with a complicated buying process and have overlooked some of the stakeholders
Running the process
The most extreme way to bottleneck is to go to the meetings alone and take crappy notes which you don’t review with your team. At that point, your head has become the ultimate repository of customer truth and everyone just has to do what you say.
“You just worry about the product. I’ll learn what we need to know.”
“Because the customers told me so!”
“I don’t have time to talk to people — I need to be coding!”
Avoiding bottlenecks has three parts: prepping, reviewing, and taking good notes.
Prepping
Your most important preparation work is to ensure you know your current list of 3 big questions. Figure them out with your team and make a point to face the scary questions.
If you’ve already learned the facts of your customer and industry, then you should also know what commitment and next steps you are going to push for at the end of the meeting.
You want to move past the obvious stuff and spend your conversations finding answers the internet can’t give you.
Sit down with your whole founding team when you prep. You want both business and product to be represented. If you leave part of the company out of the prep, then you end up missing their concerns in the customer conversations.
“We need to be building the gosh derned product, not fuffing around talking to people.” On the surface, it appears to be a refusal to face the reality that there might be something wrong with the product’s foundations. But having seen it in several teams now, I think it’s actually the desire for speed, where speed is measured by building features instead of by de-risking and validating the business.
The first is asking, “If this company fails, what is most likely to have killed it?” If we had asked that about my very first product (a user-generated cartoon community), we would have answered that either nobody wants to create cartoons or that their cartoons will be so bad that nobody wants to watch them. This gives us a good starting point to begin exploring with a combination of technical and conversational tools.
If this company were to fail, why would it have happened?
What would have to be true for this to be a huge success?
“What do we want to learn from these guys?”
Rule of thumb: If you don’t know what you’re trying to learn, you shouldn’t bother having the conversation.
Reviewing
which questions worked and which didn’t?
How can we do better next time?
Were there any important signals or questions we missed?
Who should show up
Hiring out your learning is a guaranteed way to get bad signals. Until you’ve got a working business model and a repeatable sales or marketing process, the founders need to be in the meetings themselves.
How to write it down
Emotions
🙂 Excited
🙁 Angry
😐 Embarrassed
Their life
☇ Pain or problem (symbol is a lightning bolt)
Goal or job-to-be-done (symbol is a soccer/football goal)
☐ Obstacle
⤴ Workaround
^ Background or context (symbol is a distant mountain)
☑ Feature request or purchasing criteria
$ Money or budgets or purchasing process
♀ Mentioned a specific person or company
☆ Follow-up task
Rule of thumb: Notes are useless if you don’t look at them.
The process
- You’re talking more than they are
- They are complimenting you or your idea
- You told them about your idea and don’t know what’s happening next
- You don’t have notes
- You haven’t looked through your notes with your team
- You got an unexpected answer and it didn’t change your idea
- You weren’t scared of any of the questions you asked
- You aren’t sure which big question you’re trying to answer by doing this
- If you haven’t yet, choose a focused, findable segment
- With your team, decide your big 3 learning goals
- If relevant, decide on ideal next steps and commitments
- If conversations are the right tool, figure out who to talk to Create a series of best guesses about what the
- person cares about If a question could be answered via desk research, do that first
During the conversation:
Frame the conversation
Keep it casual
Ask good questions which pass The Mom Test
Deflect compliments, anchor fluff, and dig beneath signals
Take good notes
If relevant, press for commitment and next steps
After a batch of conversations:
With your team, review your notes and key customer quotes
If relevant, transfer notes into permanent storage
Update your beliefs and plans
Decide on the next 3 big questions
Rule of thumb: Go build your dang company already.